In Response to The Great One’s Blog

You can read entire blog, “Vatican looks to heavens for signs of alien life” at: http://thegreatone22.wordpress.com/

My favorite blogger wrote,

“The Vatican engaging in science??? What a bunch of hypocrites!!! I wrote an entire page on this. Unfortunately I lost the composition and am too tired to write it all over again; maybe tomorrow with more energy. For now, suffice it to say that the Vatican (Catholic Church) is comprised of a group of businessmen who are in it for the money. They don’t believe in God, the Bible, heaven and hell, and all the rest of it. It’s all about business and maintaining a faithful following who can continue “donating” to the cause.

Much like Islam, Judaism and Scientology (truly comprised of  unadulterated crappola) and all the rest of the world’s faiths, Catholicism is a business disguised with supernatural BS that an individual with no more than a minimalist IQ can see for what it really is; a farce. Unfortunately, most individuals possess less than a minimalist IQ.”  TGO

TGO, my skeptic friend, and it is on purpose that, even though I can refer to you as my “atheist friend”, I chose the word, “skeptic”, for you are much, much, more than just simply an atheist, at your core you are a skeptic. You go beyond telling someone that you don’t believe in God. You go down to your very own core and tell them that you don’t believe that they believe in God. Actually it is incredibly logical and rational for you to think that way. Being incapable of believing that a God exists makes it impossible for you to grasp how anyone can believe in a God, and so you then continue on, as a way of justifying your inability to grasp or understand concepts formed outside of the world of classical physics, and denigrate all those beliefs that you don’t believe in and they are not just of a religious nature.

That said; let’s go to topic at hand. For me, the Vatican is made up of no more, or less, hypocrites, than any other group of men. Politics has hypocrites to the right and left. Educators, Academics, Medicine, Sports, all are composed of, believers in what they do, and hypocrites, the ones that follow a, “do as I preach, not as I do”, doctrine. While distasteful, I can’t see society functioning any different. I can’t see a Tennis champ signing a kid’s autograph and not taking a, “Don’t do drugs” stance. I can’t even see a husband even telling his wife that when it comes to marriage, he is a hypocrite.

But I won’t be a skeptic, unless I know other wise, I will generally, “believe”, in mankind. As to the Vatican engaging in science, I would say that it would be hypocrisy if it didn’t. It does show that at least they continue to slowly chip away at all the programming and indoctrination that generations have inputted.

As to the Bible not mentioning aliens or alien worlds, it doesn’t, quite simply because it was written thousands of years ago by people who didn’t have the knowledge and technology to explore this possibility. The same reason why it doesn’t talk about dinosaurs and the last ice age and the shifting of continents, nobody had the technology to discover these. People couldn’t contemplate anything outside their own world; space was little more than a decorative wall paper for them, rather than something physical that could be moved through. Stars were all the same to them, pin-point light sources that grouped together to form familiar patterns. They never thought that if they were to look at the Sun from really far away, it would look like another star, that’s why there is a distinction between the two. Since they didn’t have telescopes they wouldn’t have been able to find other planets, or distinguish Venus as a planet rather than a star.

Earth was classed separately to everything else because they could not see anything else with their naked eye that looked like Earth and therefore could support other life.
Therefore since The Bible doesn’t talk about these things and since the writers somehow brainwashed people into thinking The Bible they’d written is the complete and absolute truth; it never crossed any one’s mind to consider these concepts until the technology came along.

Of course, it now does and one would have to be a hypocrite to think otherwise.

But, TGO, since you think most individuals possess less than a minimalist IQ, enough of my thoughts. I leave you with the thoughts of someone who possessed a little more that minimum IQ.

A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive.  (Albert Einstein, 1954)

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms – this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.  (Albert Einstein – The Merging of Spirit and Science)

Lastly, please TGO, don’t include Scientology in with Islam, Judaism and Catholicism, for they truly, truly are, a money making scam that prey on those who, like an old childhood friend of mine, Humberto Fontana, who is now imprisoned by their brainwashing, the lost and weak.

Cheers – GhostRider

2 Responses to “In Response to The Great One’s Blog”

  1. B/GR,

    Good to see you posting again.

    In my experience, arguing religion is difficult because, without firm ground rules, it ultimately devolves into an argument of terminology (“it depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is…”).

    There are two ultimate (unassailable) arguments by the pro-religionists that make the whole effort fruitless:

    1. We are all suffering due to our Original Sin

    By eating from the tree of knowledge, we gained the ability to Doubt. Logic/reason are Evil. All our philosophical arguments against God are simply Satan’s way of screwing us over.

    2. God is something beyond our comprehension

    Just like an ant can’t fathom differential equations, we can’t fathom the universe before the Big Bang. We can’t know that something _isn’t_ out there – maybe we’re just to dumb to figure it out.

    Both of these are very nihilist arguments. What use is a god if we can’t perceive him/her? What’s the point of talking about god if we are fundamentally flawed in our ability to do so?

    So, if I’m going to argue with a religionist, I agree only if we can agree to focus on simple things, e.g.:

    1. Do you really believe in a anthropomorphic God, i.e. do you belive that we’re created in God’s image and that there’s a bipedal dude out there that looks like Charleton Heston? BTW, why do we typically portray Jesus as Caucasian? You’d figure he’d be Semitic, at least.

    2. Do you believe in the basic story of the Bible and of Jesus as a paranormal, actual-son-of, God? What do you think about all the censored Gnostic Gospels? Why is there no mention of Christ in any Roman history books?

    3. What happens when both the Dallas Cowboys and the New Orleans Saints pray that they’ll win the same game? Do the Saints automatically have dibs?

    4. Why doesn’t the Bible (new or old) talk about the dinosaurs?

    As to the Vatican, there was a time when priests were scientists. 5,000 years ago, the only folk who weren’t busy hunting or gathering were priests (ref. “Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond). Efficient food production provided the luxury of a priesthood. The priesthood, in turn, studied stars and math and construction techniques and gave us pyramids, Stonehenge and whatnot.Later on, only priests had the time to learn basic Latin grammar – they were the literate class. The Jesuits and Benedictines and others have been committed to education and, even to science, for hundreds of years. Of course, they might have been calculating how many angels fit on the head of a pin, but at least they knew how to calculate the area of a circle (who knows, maybe even when the circle was stretched into a 3D spherical curve). The current pope used to teach science (evolution, even) in Germany before getting called up to the Show.

    There are, btw, some very hard core relgionistas in the scientific world. Isaac Newton was fanatically devout.He didn’t view his discovery of the rules of gravitation as being in contrary with His design. Rather, he thought they demonstrated God’s greatness.

    It’s my observation that devout scientists tend to not believe in an anthropomorphic god and instead rely on unassailable position #2, above.

    Finally, speaking of science and religion, I always like to mention Pascal’s Gambit. Blaise Pascal was a mathematician and philosopher yet he argued a pro-God position. His premise was simple:

    Either there is a God or there is not. Either you believe in him or not. Now, consider the “payout” for each cell of the 2×2 matrix:

    ++ You believe in God and there really is one. Result: Salvation!

    +- You believe in God but there really isn’t one. Result: doesn’t matter. You die and you’re none the worse off.

    — You don’t believe there’s a God and there really isn’t a God. Result: doesn’t matter. You die but can’t gloat.

    -+ You don’t believe but there really is a God. Result: Damnation!

    Pascal argued that, purely from a mathematical perspective, you might as well believe — there’s no downside.

    Personally, no, I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic God. I accept that there might be something out there beyond our understanding, but then it’s also beyond to concern myself with it. I’m pretty dubious about other alternatives between these two extremes.

    M

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